No need for an apology as yet. You say “of course”, but believe me, it is usually a herculean struggle just to get most Christians to accept what you and I already take for granted.

Usually it mirrors closely the 5 stages of grief with denial (“The Bible doesn’t say that!”), anger (Ad homs, accusations of bias), bargaining (“Well maybe it’s metaphorical, or tailored to the understanding of that age”), depression (doubts, entertaining the possibility their religion is false) then acceptance (either concluding their religion is false or rationalizing the incorrect cosmology of scripture as not mattering to the credibility of Christianity, as you have).

I am relieved to have this discussion with someone who is already at the last step. It saves me a lot of time. Now, for someone who regards the Bible mainly as a collection of teachings for how to live a good life, with all the supernatural claims being of secondary importance, this information probably doesn’t seem relevant.

But that is not the perspective of the average Christian, for whom it is absolutely important whether or not the Earth was supernaturally created, whether life was supernaturally created and so on. And these are claims concerning nature, in the same category as claims about the shape of the Earth, the structure of the solar system and so on, which you have agreed scripture is wrong about.

If one believes not only in the moral and social truths of scripture but also in the metaphysical and naturalistic claims it makes about the origins of the cosmos, the Earth, living things, whether there is a soul or if we’re simply our brains and so on, big flagrant errors like this should raise a lot of red flags.

These passages are not written in the way we see poetic or allegorical verses written in, say, psalms. They are also referenced indirectly elsewhere in scripture, New Testament included, in a way which strongly indicates this cosmology was simply a fact of life for the authors which they assumed the truth of.

That’s a problem imo because it’s recorded as historical actions of Yahweh, God of the Bible (as in the verse describing him marking out the circle of the Earth upon the face of the deep) as with verses describing Yahweh creating life. Not as human imaginings of what Yahweh has done but as if from the perspective of an eyewitness, or Yahweh himself, as with the other events of Genesis.

If we can agree the verses wherein Yahweh separates the waters with a solid firmament, marks out the boundaries of a circular Earth and so on never happened but were wrongly assumed by the authors of the OT because of the relatively limited understanding of cosmology available at the time, then they were basically making shit up that seemed plausible based on observation and guesswork as well as what neighboring cultures believed, but which they presented as divinely revealed information.

The authors of scripture intentionally fabricating accounts like this and presenting it as divinely revealed information under the assumption it would never become possible to investigate should trouble you. It calls into doubt the reliability of their witness, and all other claims concerning supposed actions of God or divinely revealed information elsewhere in scripture.

It’s one thing to have faith, as in confidence that something is true or false where there’s as yet no information to confirm or deny it. That’s classical faith, trust in what has not yet been seen, or may never be seen. Then there is blind faith, which is belief not just in the absence of evidence one way or the other, but in spite of ample evidence to the contrary.




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Alex Beyman

Alex Beyman

I post text here, often accompanied by images and sometimes video. People then clap or don't depending on whether they enjoy what I posted.

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