“Yes, christianity teaches this but also secular scientists”

No they don’t. The key word was “imminently”. Do you know what that word means? Billions of years in the future is not imminently. Secular scientists also do not use the end of the world to try and motivate recruitment or evangelism in the way Christianity does.

>”The point of all those verses of sell/give your belonging and leave your family is talking about the cost that you might pay. “

That’s what you’re meant to believe about those verses, sure. But there’s a hidden purpose to them, just like the hidden purpose to the Scientology policy of disconnection.

>”And this is even true for the secular world. Those who run for presidential /military /political elections must be prepared to sell/give away their belonging and even leave their job/family for the sake of their country. Do you think your country are a cult then?”

No, that’s only a single parallel. Also there is no central holy book of America (or any other country) which instructs people to sell their belongings or cut family members out of their lives. Nobody says that the world is ending very soon and only Americans will survive it either.

>”In the business world, those who want to be the CEO of a company need to show their dedication, give their time, energy and even at the cost of forgetting their children birthday, graduation, etc for the sake of position/more wealth.”

That is only a single parallel. Also, there is no central holy book of any business which instructs employees to sell their belongings or cut family members out of their lives. There is no company which claims the world is ending very soon, and only their employees will survive it.

>”In the medical world, if doctors want to get more recognition from the hospital, they need to sacrifice their sleeping time (by given night-shift by the hospital), be put in a remote areas and be paid with low salary for the sake of advancing his career as doctors.”

That is only a single parallel. Also, there is no central holy book of medicine which instructs doctors to sell their belongings or cut family members out of their lives. There is no doctor who says that only his patients will survive the coming end of the world, either.

>”When you fall in love with a girl and want to pursue her, most likely you will sell your belonging for the sake of giving gift to your loved one, most likely you will end up prioritizing your girl than your own family, most likely you’ll end up fighting with your parent if your parent doesn’t like the girl that you love.”

That is only a single parallel. Also, there is no central holy book of romance which instructs lovers to sell their belongings or cut family members out of their lives.

>”Every business wants you to sell/give away your belongings to buy their products, charity wants you to give away your belongings, for ex : Apple/Samsung wants you to sell/give away your old phone so that you can buy their new phone.”

The fact that people sometimes do this in order to afford expensive things is not comparable to a group explicitly instructing recruits, in their central holy text, that they must sell their belongings and cut unsupportive family members out of their lives in order to join when there isn’t any practical need to do so.

>”So my point is, it’s not that Jesus force you to sell your belonging”

That isn’t what the Bible says. The Bible says “In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.” CANNOT. Jesus is therefore forcing anybody at that time who wanted to follow him to get rid of their belongings, when there was no practical need to do so.

>”it’s more of a cost that you might pay in order to get something more precious, that is Him. A muslim who want to convert to Christianity most likely will end up be hated by his own family, so he/she must choose, leaving his/her family to follow Jesus or keep in the family but will be forbid by his family to follow Jesus.”

Isn’t this also true of someone in a Christian family who chooses to follow Muhammad? Is that also a noble sacrifice in your view?

>”When you have free time at home and you want to play game, will you give your time to play game (which will give you temporal satisfaction) or you choose to give your time to pray/reading the bible (which will give you greater benefit)?”

What greater benefit does it give you, which is possible to verify the existence of?

>”There are cost in following Jesus, but so are this secular world, you want wealth, there are cost that must be paid, you want promotion in your career, there are cost.”

This does not apply to a policy requiring converts to sell their belongings to join a group. You can make all the analogies you want, but nothing stopped him from letting people join, but keep their belongings, as evidenced by the fact that Christians are allowed to do that today.

Have you ever wondered why modern Christians don’t have to get rid of their belongings to join? Because the real purpose of that policy was to make it hard to leave early on if a new convert began to have doubts. It made them dependent upon the cult for their shelter and sustenance.

However such a policy also makes it easier to identify as a cult and thus more vulnerable to skeptics pointing that out. So once the membership increases to the point where that policy is no longer necessary to retain converts, it is discontinued.

This applies to all of the practices which distinguish cults from religions. Scientology has all of the classic cultic practices, but is very young, just a few decades.

Mormonism is older, at over a century, and has some but not all of the cultic practices I’ve discussed. Islam is 1,400 years old and has almost none of those practices, and so on.

>”And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. — Matthew 19:29”

I did mention this many times. It’s the unverifiable future reward used to incentivize conversion, and motivate evangelism.

>”Unverifiable? From true story : Do you know the story of a Pakistani man named Nabeel Qureshi? He was a muslim, when he converted to Christianity, he’s leaving his family, but then he gained much more family in Christ, and also his old family turned out still love him, you can check on his youtube channel where he made a video with his father.”

How does that prove the existence of heaven…?

>”As for eternal life, of course it’s still unverifiable because it’s in the future.”

Isn’t that convenient.

>”Suppose your boss promise you a reward if you can solve certain things at work, your reward will still unverifiable until you finish your work and get those reward.”

But then there would exist people who have already received the reward who I can talk to. They can show me the reward they received. That isn’t the case for a reward you receive after you die.

>”The bible never sabotage critical thinking”

Yes it does, in the verses I specified.

>”in fact, you must use your critical thinking to understand its deeper meaning since the bible is full of parable, metaphor, allegory, etc.”

No, exegesis is not critical thinking because it proceeds under the a priori assumption that Christianity is true. The Bible repeatedly admonishes Christians to trust in the scriptures, and not rely on their own powers of reason. I supplied many verses which say this.

>”Secular psychology and medical world also describe invisible trickster, that is your mind. Have you know term psychosomatic? Something invisible in your body tricks you to feel pain in certain area of your body when in actual you have no disease”

No, that’s a stupid comparison. Nobody says that you should trust something exists because if you see evidence it doesn’t, it’s your mind tricking you. You’re making huge defensive stretches here.

>”This is MLM, and also some business who want to target children as their customers, and also corrupt politician who play people’s emotion in order for them to vote him. Not Christianity.”

What about Sunday school? What about prison ministries? What about Alcoholics Anonymous? What about third world missionaries?

>”Can you confirm that all those writers are eyewitness? That is a person who lives in the same era and location as Gandhi.”

I can confirm some of them are, but you’re not paying me money to teach you, so I am not willing to dedicate the time and energy needed to find out which ones.

>”By what metrics/facts can you conclude this?”

You’re the one who has to answer why there exist no contemporaneous accounts of Christ’s miracles or resurrection. I am not going to allow you to put me on the defensive.

>”Just like you said ‘ The only indication we’d have of what sort of person Joseph Smith was would be the Book of Mormon and the opinions of Mormons. So, the only written evidence of Joseph Smith is Book of Mormon. While the written evidence of Jesus is the four gospel, and writings of Paul. which is not considered holy book at that time.”

Paul was a convert to Christianity however. You are missing the point, that we only know the Book of Mormon lies about Joseph Smith because it’s a young religion, so we have more historical materials from that time to compare. The fact that we don’t for Christianity since it’s older means Jesus could easily have been a con man like Joseph Smith.

>”Who trick them?”

Joseph Smith. Or Jesus, in the case of Christians. Joseph Smith, Jesus Christ and Muhammad were all apocalyptic cult founders.


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Alex Beyman

Alex Beyman

I post text here, often accompanied by images and sometimes video. People then clap or don't depending on whether they enjoy what I posted.